Broken bolt

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Broken bolt

Postby lilquiz » Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:50 am

Well, Here we go again. Just had my second bolt break on my 300 oly. Just wondering the frequency of this problem with other ossm owners. Thanks
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Re: Broken bolt

Postby Rattler » Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:16 am

lilquiz wrote:Well, Here we go again. Just had my second bolt break on my 300 oly. Just wondering the frequency of this problem with other ossm owners. Thanks


Talked to Andy, the Oly tech and he says that he has replaced a total of ONE 300 OSSM bolt over the years and that this bolt had one broken tine/lug only. Is this what you are experiencing? Or did the break occur in a different fashion?
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Re: Broken bolt

Postby lilquiz » Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:11 pm

Yes it broke the lug off just below the extractor. The one he replaced was probably mine lol.
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Re: Broken bolt

Postby Globemaster » Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:29 pm

how many rounds did you have on the bolt(s) before they failed? and do you have a picture of the broken bolt?
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Re: Broken bolt

Postby Rattler » Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:35 am

Same break, same area, only rifle to have done it so far. Wonder what the common denominator is?
Are you shooting hand loads or factory HSM?
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Re: Broken bolt

Postby lilquiz » Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:46 pm

I hand load. This is not the only 300 oly to do this. Tunnel toad posted the same problem in this forum. His also broke in the same place mine did. These loads show less pressure signs than that of the factory.
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Re: Broken bolt

Postby Globemaster » Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:28 pm

I'd still like to see a picture of the bolt
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Re: Broken bolt

Postby Rattler » Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:54 am

Globemaster wrote:I'd still like to see a picture of the bolt

Me too.

lilqiz wrote:I hand load. This is not the only 300 oly to do this. Tunnel toad posted the same problem in this forum. His also broke in the same place mine did. These loads show less pressure signs than that of the factory.


Hand load. 'Nuff said about that.

As far as this not being the only bolt to break = Oly would have no idea how many parts in their guns break if customers do not return them to take advantage of their warranty. This is the root of my comment.

As far as the loads "showing" less signs of pressure, the real question is, how much pressure do your loads produce? Do you have any idea at all? Or are you just working on the assumption that all must be well because you're not seeing case heads flatten, or brass flow? The reason I ask that is especially with large diameter cases, this is not always true. Because there is so much brass to move and such a big surface area of brass on the bolt face that you will not always see traditional signs of excess pressure before other parts start to let go.

If it were me, and I had a hand load that broke two bolts; i would use that handload any more. Oly has a chart of handloads for the 300 OSSM on their web site, all pressure tested and all tried in the real practical environment of life. Use them and i bet your problems go away.
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Re: Broken bolt

Postby lilquiz » Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:22 pm

Just in this forum alone three ppl have posted of broken bolts ,just wondering if you knew of more. As far as the pressure tests it is head expansion test in comparison to factory loads. It is not the primer test.
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Re: Broken bolt

Postby Globemaster » Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:03 pm

I've seen a few bolts posted here on OA2.org ... but never a '300-OSSM' broken-bolt
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Re: Broken bolt

Postby lilquiz » Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:40 pm

listed under member Tunnel toad title "broken 300 ossm bolt"
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Re: Broken bolt

Postby lilquiz » Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:43 pm

[quote="Tunnel Toad"]Well, it happened. I broke a lug off my K8 300 OSSM bolt. As usually happens, it was a lug next to the extractor. I sent the upper back to Oly and they are “gladly” replacing it for free and I expect it back this week.

My first thought was too many too hot of loads. Although the particular load when it broke (shot number 751) was a mild starting load, it was likely stressed from previous pressure spikes. The hazards of guessing at load data and pressures.

After I sent it off to Oly, I had another thought. My GameStalker 300 OSSM has well over 1000 rounds through it without an issue, but a possible key difference is that it has the Ace rifle stock on it supplied by Oly. I was shooting my K8 upper on a CAR lower/stock. The CAR stock has a lighter buffer which allows quicker unlocking of the bolt. That’s great on a short carbine barrel, but the K8 has a 24” barrel. Now I’m thinking the damage may be more from the gun unlocking under high pressure and less from too many hot loads.

I got an Ace rifle stock, buffer, spring, and tube and put it on the lower for when I get my K8 upper back. This will delay unlocking and is more comfortable to shoot.
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Re: Broken bolt

Postby lilquiz » Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:47 pm

Memories refreshed now?
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Re: Broken bolt

Postby Globemaster » Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:49 pm

yup, I've seen the thread earlier this afternoon, as I went back and double checked the forum topics within the WSSM Central Room, and I looked through all five pages of it ... but I can't see any images of it.

maybe the firewall isn't allowing me to view them?
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Re: Broken bolt

Postby Rattler » Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:21 pm

lilquiz wrote:Just in this forum alone three ppl have posted of broken bolts ,just wondering if you knew of more. As far as the pressure tests it is head expansion test in comparison to factory loads. It is not the primer test.


This is not adequate testing. Results can different from cartridge to cartridge based on a variety of unestablished variable like case thickness, brass density etc.
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Re: Broken bolt

Postby ak4wd » Sun Mar 09, 2014 1:16 pm

Hand load. 'Nuff said about that.

As far as this not being the only bolt to break = Oly would have no idea how many parts in their guns break if customers do not return them to take advantage of their warranty. This is the root of my comment.

As far as the loads "showing" less signs of pressure, the real question is, how much pressure do your loads produce? Do you have any idea at all? Or are you just working on the assumption that all must be well because you're not seeing case heads flatten, or brass flow? The reason I ask that is especially with large diameter cases, this is not always true. Because there is so much brass to move and such a big surface area of brass on the bolt face that you will not always see traditional signs of excess pressure before other parts start to let go.


“Hand load. 'Nuff said about that.”

Wow! Rattler, you managed to ridicule Lilqiz before you knew anything about his reloading process! That's a great way to encourage people to participate in this forum.
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Re: Broken bolt

Postby ak4wd » Sun Mar 09, 2014 1:18 pm

Rattler wrote:
lilquiz wrote:Just in this forum alone three ppl have posted of broken bolts ,just wondering if you knew of more. As far as the pressure tests it is head expansion test in comparison to factory loads. It is not the primer test.


This is not adequate testing. Results can different from cartridge to cartridge based on a variety of unestablished variable like case thickness, brass density etc.



Rattler, you labeled Lilqis’s pressure testing in his reloading process as “not adequate” when you know next to nothing about his process other than he does head expansion tests. In one sentence you dismissed 40 years of contributions by Ken Waters to the handloading community as simply… flawed. Another Wow!
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Re: Broken bolt

Postby Thom » Sun Mar 09, 2014 1:30 pm

Oly cannot control handloads, nor can they be responsible for their use. We all know this, it is a fact of the industry, few manufactures will honor warranties when reloads are involved.

I cannot speak for Oly or for Rattler, but the tone of this thread seems to be going south, and it really doesn't need to.

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Re: Broken bolt

Postby Globemaster » Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:25 pm

I got that impression too Thom, I'm glad to hear that I wasn't the only one who felt like that, as I can read between the lines too; and if it goes totally sideways ... I'll take care of it
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Re: Broken bolt

Postby Rattler » Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:09 am

ak4wd wrote:
Rattler wrote:
lilquiz wrote:Just in this forum alone three ppl have posted of broken bolts ,just wondering if you knew of more. As far as the pressure tests it is head expansion test in comparison to factory loads. It is not the primer test.


This is not adequate testing. Results can different from cartridge to cartridge based on a variety of unestablished variable like case thickness, brass density etc.



Rattler, you labeled Lilqis’s pressure testing in his reloading process as “not adequate” when you know next to nothing about his process other than he does head expansion tests.


Yes, I did. And you know why - because based on the evidence provided, it's NOT ADEQUATE. That's all I'm saying.

You're 100% right AK4wd, I have no idea about his process, and that, my friend is exactly the point. I have no idea what you or anyone else does for pressure testing their hand-loads. I'm not you, I'm not watching, I have no idea what you do on the other side of this keyboard and monitor. All that I know, is the information that that gets passed on. Based on that information provided (case head expansion) as indicating factors into cartridge pressure, that is definitely inadequate to determine real pressures. No need to get upset. :thumbs up:

ak4wd wrote: In one sentence you dismissed 40 years of contributions by Ken Waters to the handloading community as simply… flawed. Another Wow!


Again, you're wrong and jumping to conclusions. I dismiss nothing other than refuting the statement he made based on the information provided. Hopefully, his pressure testing is based on more than just that one factor; I'd like him to have another 40 years of handloading. :D
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Re: Broken bolt

Postby lilquiz » Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:42 pm

Well, I for one do not feel my testing methods are sub standard. Tested all the cases fired that day and none of the heads expanded more than the factory loads.

They also have less recoil. I believe it may be a timing issue. I did get the impression I was being
" brow beaten'". No feelings hurt and I'll be Darned If I will cry in front of you.... :D
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Re: Broken bolt

Postby Once a Marine....... » Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:34 pm

:thumbs up:
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Re: Broken bolt

Postby Rattler » Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:32 am

lilquiz wrote:Well, I for one do not feel my testing methods are sub standard. Tested all the cases fired that day and none of the heads expanded more than the factory loads.

They also have less recoil. I believe it may be a timing issue. I did get the impression I was being
" brow beaten'". No feelings hurt and I'll be Darned If I will cry in front of you.... :D

No brow beating intended. Just need to clarify that what standards are acceptable to a consumer may not be the same as those found acceptable by a manufacturer - or their Insurance company.

In my nearly thirty years in this industry, filling ever capacity from shelf stocker and SKS de-greaser to Sales Manager of a multimillion dollar company, I've seen way too many reports and pictures of guys who have done "adequate testing" get killed or maimed because their pressures were quite frankly, not adequately tested. I'm always going to come from the angle of the abundance of caution. If you choose that my recommendations of caution are too cautious for you, no loss to me - everyone has to make up their own mind.

It's sad when one has to respond with legal briefs to survivors of catastrophic failures of firearms, and look at widows in the face and say, "I'm sorry, but we warned your husband to do better testing". The truly sad part is that way too many people think that have a really good understanding of firearms, when in fact the day they find out they don't is the day of the big kaboom that takes off a hand or face. No amount of expressed caution will stop people from making their own decisions. And as much as we warn people on the simplest of things like checking the heasdspace of your AR when you change a bolt- people will not do it - and worse yet, they'll tell people that you don't need to do that (because they tried it and they didn't die), or because someone else told them that if the part is manufactured right you don;t need to headspace it, and then - KABOOM! Next step - sue the manufacturer. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

Have fun reloading. I've spoken my piece.
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