Ammo questions

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Ammo questions

Postby mark4Jesus » Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:28 pm

The manual I downloaded stated not to use steel case ammo. Is that any steel case or just the foreign made stuff. I have Hornady FPD's in my pistol and they have steel casing.

I know that the carbine barrel length affects bullet ballistics, so...What are opinions/lessons learned regarding ammo for home defense? What about practice ammo?

Feel free to offer personal opinions!
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Re: Ammo questions

Postby Globemaster » Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:48 pm

here's a good 'Olympic Arms' related link for you M4J. :thumbs up:
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Re: Ammo questions

Postby mark4Jesus » Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:15 pm

Thanks globemaster. Looks like the Hornady steel isn't recommended. I'm sure they make a brass cased personal defense round. I will so some research.
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Re: Ammo questions

Postby mark4Jesus » Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:20 am

Trying to decide what ammo to keep for the home. Needs to be brass case. I have Hornady for my pistol, but steel, or maybe nickel plate, case. Hornady does make brass case defense ammo. Since the carbines increase muzzle velocity of the bullet, I am leaning towards a heavier bullet. Any opinions/experience with .40 ammo for home defense used in a carbine. Or anyone who has used the 9mm carbine, your experience with ammo.
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Re: Ammo questions

Postby mark4Jesus » Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:09 pm

Didn't get a response, thought I would try again....
Any opinions/experience with .40 ammo for home defense used in a carbine. Or anyone who has used the 9mm carbine, your experience with ammo?
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Re: Ammo questions

Postby Thom » Wed Aug 13, 2014 6:40 am

I think you are the only one posting here who has or uses a .40, though there are a few 9mm owners lurking around. Best advice I can offer is "Test it" take it to the range and paper the ammo types you are interested in. Velocities and terminal ballistics will be superior to a handgun, so if it is good in a handgun, it will probably be even better in your carbine.

But don't try to over think this. If it cycles without problems and shoots straight then it will probably serve your purposes just fine. Solid hits count with anything for a lot more than misses or glitches.

I usually run plain old ball ammo in my .45 carbines, it always functions without a hitch and shoots straight, regardless of manufacturer. I have also used various makers 180 & 200 gr re-manufactured lead semi wadcutters without issue. In truth, it has ran flawlessly with everything I have fed it, even Russian steel cased ammo from Tula, Wolf and Silver Bear. It goes bang when I pull the trigger.
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Re: Ammo questions

Postby Rattler » Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:44 am

I'm perfectly comfortable using steel cased ammo in a revolver or single shot. But I'll only ever use brass in an auto-loader. There's a reason that brass cases are made from brass - it's because they are supposed to be brass. That's how these guns are designed (unless you are a Com-block manufactured AK/SKS made to fall apart after about 50K anyway). There are a ton of great home protection ammunition out there. Only recently has any domestic company begun using steel cases, they are universally despised by all major manufacturers for a reason. Hornady is just trying to take a piece of the market share owned by cheap imported ammo.

I'm using Hornady in my .380 Sig P232.
I use Double Tap in my 10mm
I still have a thing for Hydro-shocks for my 45 ACP.
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Re: Ammo questions

Postby mark4Jesus » Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:52 pm

Thanks guys. Thom, I do tend to overthink things! I am a real detail/specs geek on many things, not just ammo. I know the 5.56 is more popular; however, I was surprised that I did not find more carbine folks here. My .40 is an excellent weapon, and I'm sure the 9mm, 10mm, and .45 are also. I got some more practice rounds and will shoot them tomorrow, can't wait.

Rattler, I did not have a semi-auto pistol for many years and the steel cases were something that I did not remember. When I was an LEO, we had brass casings for our 9mm S&W pistols, I think they were 5906's. Thanks for the input.
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Re: Ammo questions

Postby John A. » Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:05 pm

DOJ/NIJ min penetration standards are pretty near the same between 9mm and 40 S&W.

Not trying to throw a wrench in the conversation, but they are.

Sorry, I don't have a 40 carbine, but the handgun that is in the nighstand for bumps in the night is a Springfield XD40, and in it, I use Federal 180 gr Hydrashok JHP's.

Thinking about it, a lot of my SD/HD ammo is Federal.

Not sure if the bullet face will feed well in the carbine or not though. You'd just have to try and see.

I don't have any trouble with it in my handgun though.

I don't mind shooting steel case out of my guns anymore. The old lacquer coated stuff, I had trouble with it sticking in the chamber when it was hot/melty, but the new stuff isn't as bad.

Depending on what firearm, I'm not sure if the steel would be my first choice for HD/SD or not, but in general, I've been shooting a lot of it in the last couple of years.
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Re: Ammo questions

Postby mark4Jesus » Wed Aug 13, 2014 6:21 pm

Thanks for the info John A. I am going to try different loads. Right now I am leaning towards the heavier, slower bullets (based on 4" barrel), because the muzzle velocity will increase with the barrel length. Thanks for all the input. Now to go buy mo bullets to test!
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Re: Ammo questions

Postby John A. » Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:03 pm

While a longer barrel does usually equate to increased velocity, some do not have a lot of gain, and some that has a fast powder burn may actually decrease in velocity when fired through a long barrel. Just throwing that out there.

My personal opinion is to use the heaviest round I can get for SD/HD, because God forbid, if I ever have to pull the trigger, I will need to send the biggest thing I can to keep them as far away from me and mine as possible.
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Re: Ammo questions

Postby mark4Jesus » Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:52 am

[quote=]"My personal opinion is to use the heaviest round I can get for SD/HD, because God forbid, if I ever have to pull the trigger, I will need to send the biggest thing I can to keep them as far away from me and mine as possible.[/quote]

Agreed!
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Re: Ammo questions

Postby Rattler » Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:10 am

mark4Jesus wrote:Rattler, I did not have a semi-auto pistol for many years and the steel cases were something that I did not remember. When I was an LEO, we had brass casings for our 9mm S&W pistols, I think they were 5906's. Thanks for the input.


To save money,most CLEO's were buying "lawman" or "Blazer" from CCI. Law Man was just underpowered loads made with seconds brass. Blazers were made with aluminum cases, and they were notorious for splitting.
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Re: Ammo questions

Postby John A. » Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:53 am

I won't shoot blazers in a semi auto.

And you SURE don't want to shoot it in an open bolt machinegun. 8O
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Re: Ammo questions

Postby John A. » Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:59 am

mark4Jesus, have you tried to carbine with different bullets yet? HP, SP, FMJ, wadcutters?

I'm curious how the carbine feeds the different bullets.
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Re: Ammo questions

Postby mark4Jesus » Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:49 pm

John A. I have shot Federal HP's and had no issues. I have some FMJ that I am going to shoot, hopefully tomorrow. I have not tried the Hornady TAP-FPD because they are too expensive. I will try them when I have decided on what I want to keep in it. The only issue I had with the HP was, I believe, magazine related (15rd Glock with a different follower) when I shot rapid fire. The other magazines, 15rd and 22rd Glocks, worked fine.

When you speak of wadcutters, I picture the wadcutters we fired out of our 357's for practice. I just looked up .40 wadcutters, and no I haven't. Didn't know there was such a beast. I will have to find them.

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Re: Ammo questions

Postby John A. » Fri Aug 15, 2014 1:28 pm

Winchester white box .40 S&W were wadcutters, though I think the ones I bought were 165 gr.

http://www.luckygunner.com/winchester-4 ... winusa-500
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Re: Ammo questions

Postby mark4Jesus » Sat Aug 16, 2014 5:24 pm

I noticed that the shape of the FMJ is the same as what some call wadcutters too. The bullets I have are the shape of the ones one the link you gave. Didn't get to shoot them today, maybe Monday.
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Re: Ammo questions

Postby sigma_pete » Sat Aug 30, 2014 8:03 pm

I don't own a 40 carbine, but do have a few 9mm uppers. I shoot Speer Gold Dot in them when I'm not shooting cheap Winchester or reloaded FMJ rounds.

The self defense rounds of choice for my 40 S&W pistols (Sig P226, P229 & Kahr MK40) are the Federal Hydra-Shok and Speer Gold Dot.
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Re: Ammo questions

Postby Rocket » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:55 pm

Sorry to just now coming back to the site :( I actually stopped visiting due to the lack of site interest in my k-40 GL. Seemed like NOBODY had one or at least was willing to post about it :bang: Again my apologies to a great site. To answer your question, I actually have 2 k-40 GL's One for me and one for my wife Both shoot Speer gold dot 165 grain to the tune of about 3-4 MOA at 100 That round has functioned great in both rifles although I've shot about every defensive round and some frangible stuff as well. The steel cased ammo is generally a no go, but it will work in a pinch, I just wouldn't buy/shoot a lot of it. The Speer round is my home defense round in glock 22 round .40 magazines I've actually shot my rifle in a few 3 gun matches and routinely shoot with it at steel challenge matches Thanks for bringing me back to the forum.......even if just as a seldom poster!
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Re: Ammo questions

Postby mark4Jesus » Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:15 am

Thanks rocket! I was considering using 180g rounds since the muzzle velocity would be increased. My thinking is that I would have a heavier bullet traveling at near, probably more depending on the round, the same speed as the lighter rounds from a 4" barrel. I was also looking at the lower priced Remington HTP rounds, which makes loading two 22rd, and two 15rd mags for affordable. What are your thoughts?
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Re: Ammo questions

Postby Rocket » Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:41 am

The Remington round is good I don't really have a preference of the 180s over the 165s or vise versa. I like the 165s because its my law enforcement duty load, and its a GREAT uspsa load!!!!! It runs right at a 167-168 power factor in my glocks and my STI .40 . Its also performed great in our deadly force encounters ( terrible to say, when someones life ends , but the round did what it is designed to do) It's been awhile since I chronoed my 165 load but I think it gained about 100-150 fps out of my rifle vs my glock 22. 1,025 to 1,150 fps respectively Once again, you could certainly find a "better" load for your purposes but for commonality my setup works great.
Just FYI......I chronographed a 125 grain frangible round that made almost 1,500 fps out of the rifle! That is certainly .357 ballistics there! But I think a frangible round at that speed is BAAAAD on barrels?
Either way, I think you'll be fine with all your choices
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Re: Ammo questions

Postby mark4Jesus » Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:58 am

I may get the Remington to begin with and then the others as extra money permits. I was LE for six years and on our SWAT team, so the deadly force results are what I am interested in when protecting the house from bad guys. But yes, taking a life is not desired. Our team prided itself on not having to take a life for 17 years, until one day the suspect left us no choice.
I have not kept up with handgun ammo in the years since I left LE. I have been wearing out my former "brothers" to get caught up on the new stuff.
Thanks for your help!
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Re: Ammo questions

Postby mark4Jesus » Sat Dec 27, 2014 5:03 pm

I know I shouldn't use steel cased ammo. Is it safe to assume then that nickel plated brass is okay to use?
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Re: Ammo questions

Postby Globemaster » Sat Dec 27, 2014 5:48 pm

mark4Jesus wrote:Is it safe to assume then that nickel plated brass is okay to use?

I say that's a safe assumption ... yes :thumbs up:
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