Brass vs. Steel Cased Ammo–An Epic Torture Test

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Brass vs. Steel Cased Ammo–An Epic Torture Test

Postby Globemaster » Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:52 am

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Re: Brass vs. Steel Cased Ammo–An Epic Torture Test

Postby Dstehl » Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:34 pm

I will still stick to high quality brass for my AR-15.
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Re: Brass vs. Steel Cased Ammo–An Epic Torture Test

Postby Rattler » Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:55 pm

A grand experiment indeed, but with several notable failures that make this a non-comparative test from am empirical standpoint.

Examples:
    All ammunitions were not used in all guns.
    The barrels are not made by the same company, and therefore will have different wear consistencies.
    The extractors are not identical or made by the same companies and will not wear consistently.
    Why would one put a throat erosion gauge in the bore? Either the wrong gauge was used (bore erosion gauge), or they had the wrong (incompetent) tester using the tool
    etc.
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Re: Brass vs. Steel Cased Ammo–An Epic Torture Test

Postby ididieselman » Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:58 pm

all in all proof in the pudding, 0 failures with brass. Brass is the only diet my AR will get :thumbs up:
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Re: Brass vs. Steel Cased Ammo–An Epic Torture Test

Postby Rattler » Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:14 pm

ididieselman wrote:all in all proof in the pudding, 0 failures with brass. Brass is the only diet my AR will get :thumbs up:

Exactly the point that needs to be stressed.
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Re: Brass vs. Steel Cased Ammo–An Epic Torture Test

Postby Globemaster » Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:22 pm

duly noted ... but I found it to be a good article, nonetheless.
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Re: Brass vs. Steel Cased Ammo–An Epic Torture Test

Postby Once a Marine....... » Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:23 pm

I admit that I have a stash of Russian steel cased ammo..... it was given to me.
It will only be used as last ditch ammunition when all brass ammo is gone. :(
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Re: Brass vs. Steel Cased Ammo–An Epic Torture Test

Postby DocH » Wed May 29, 2013 1:45 am

Globemaster wrote:duly noted ... but I found it to be a good article, nonetheless.



i AGREE!
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Re: Brass vs. Steel Cased Ammo–An Epic Torture Test

Postby John A. » Wed May 29, 2013 11:50 am

I have "some" steel cased tula in 223 that I have been shooting as of late.

I've had a few hard primers that haven't lit on the first go round (likely due to the reduced power springs/trigger job), but I have always preferred to use the steel cased ammo to get on the paper when dialing in new scopes.

And lately, I have been using it for coyote because I hate to dip into my good stuff to kill an old mangy varmint.

I truly miss those days when wolf was $1.99 a box and Fed American Eagle was $4.97 a box though.

Sadly, that was only a few years back. :x
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Re: Brass vs. Steel Cased Ammo–An Epic Torture Test

Postby Treehugger » Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:22 pm

I have a book titled "With Our Backs to Berlin" which is about 10-12 stories of end of WW II from the German perspective. One of the men was an MG42 gunner and at one point during his recollections mentioned that the German Army by this point had gone to steel cased ammo with a laquer finish because brass was in short supply and needed elsewhere. He talked about how the chamber would gum up and he'd have to break the thing down to clean it if the firing tapered off as the laquer would hardene and cause feeding malfunctions. He also stated that being overrun by the russians was not the best time to be tearing apart his weapon, so he had acquired a drum/belt of brass cased ammo from earlier in the war and kept in with him at all times incase his position was overrun and he had to beat feet. I've read probably the same articles as everyone else about the AR chambers being more sensitive to the laquered ammo build up that the AK family which was made wobblerier(?) to accomodate itinerate farmer soldiers, so I'll wager a guess that the Germans MG-42 was just made too well because thats what Germans like to do-make good stuff. I read the Steel Cased Ammo-An Epic Torture Test on the Lucky Gunner site and I was well impressed by the results. 3 of the 4 guns ran with no issues as I recall, and the fourth had some hiccup which I don't recall. And 10,000 rounds each! I almost cried at that number simply because in our current world it would take 6 months visiting Walmart every day to buy their 3 boxes per customer limit, to restock that amount. And that doesn't account for other customers getting there first. But from a mechanical point of view it was a very cool read. I was impressed when the barrels were cut open and the gas port erosion shown as well as all the wear of the rifling which didn't actually surprise me but was still amazing to view in proper light. I have read a few articles about barrel metalurgy; were the carbines used in the test sporting milspec barrels? I have the impression that the GI barrels wear longer due to special materials used, but then again these guns were all tore up in what, a day? The AR platform has many detractors but if an average U.S. made model, such as Oly (I'm not saying Oly is 'average'- near and dear to my heart it is) would get 3/4 of that use under those conditions that would still be impressive for something sold for sporting use. I had a knowledgable friend inform me that the production AK was only expected to fire 5,000 rounds under field conditions because frankly, the Communist Leadership didn't expect any of their individual troops to last long enough to need a weapon that would last any longer. Can't say I would get any warm fuzzies over leadership that thought that way about me, but the darn thing seems to keep on keepin' on. Does anyone know of a confirmed high mileage AK for this conversation? When my friend passed that information on to me I had at that time recently read about the recoil buffers from Buffer Technology, and how they work. Thus if a weapon that was expected to work up to the 5,000th round dependably with the bolt carrier slamming into the rear of the receiver 5,000 times, how much more life expectancy could that same weapon be expected to reasonably reach? Whoops gotta be somewhere!
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Re: Brass vs. Steel Cased Ammo–An Epic Torture Test

Postby DocH » Sat May 10, 2014 9:18 am

Interesting post,Treehugger!
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Re: Brass vs. Steel Cased Ammo–An Epic Torture Test

Postby Colorado Osprey » Mon May 12, 2014 3:52 pm

ididieselman wrote:all in all proof in the pudding, 0 failures with brass. Brass is the only diet my AR will get :thumbs up:


My guns have never seen steel case ammo... BUT
when you consider the conclusion that many guns never see 5000 rounds and that the barrel and extractor need to be changed at that rate when using steel case ammo. The barrel and extractor costs are less than the delta in price difference of brass case ammo.
Seems that they make a point that the most economical way to shoot with very few failures is steel case. Even if you need to swap out a barrel & extractor.

There is also ammo you want to avoid. All steel case is not made equal.
Lets just remove all the warning label and let nature take its course.
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Re: Brass vs. Steel Cased Ammo–An Epic Torture Test

Postby Shermanator » Tue May 13, 2014 5:28 am

Colorado Osprey wrote:
ididieselman wrote:all in all proof in the pudding, 0 failures with brass. Brass is the only diet my AR will get :thumbs up:

All steel case is not made equal.


Same goes for brass too. I've had some brass cased factory loads that had multiple blown primers ie 1-2 per 30 round mag. Those blown primers can stop an AR15/M16 up in a heart beat to the point you wouldn't be able to fix it quickly. The most interesting one was the 3 tong anvil pieces from inside the primer made it's way inside under the bolt catch causing it to stay in the up/catch position.
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Re: Brass vs. Steel Cased Ammo–An Epic Torture Test

Postby John A. » Tue May 13, 2014 6:33 am

I have had some stoppages that I directly accuse steel case ammo to have caused.

I have had failures that I directly accuse brass case ammo to have caused.

I have had magazine failures.

I have one gun that will not shoot flat tip ammo due to the radius of the mouth of the chamber.

I have another gun that used to suffer from a failure to chamber about 1 out of every 10 rounds or so before I finally got it lined out by replacing hammer and recoil springs.

If you don't experience failures of some sort of another, you are not shooting enough.

I own both steel and brass cased ammo, I will use either in any of my guns.

I have steel 223. I have brass 7.62x39. I buy based on fair price. And in bulk whenever possible.
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