Oly uppers and registered receiver (full auto) lowers??

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Oly uppers and registered receiver (full auto) lowers??

Postby JCS » Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:17 pm

I have an Oly AR-15 chambered for 7.62x39, and another Oly AR-15 chambered for 9mm - I'v got the full auto bug again and I'm thinking about going through the ATF process and purchasing a Colt M16 registered receiver - would it be compatible with the Oly uppers? Would any of the Oly upper components have to be swapped out or modified for the uppers to function reliably with the registered receiver??
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Re: Oly uppers and registered receiver (full auto) lowers??

Postby John A. » Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:19 pm

Olympics carriers are made so as to not contact an auto sear so neither would work in a registered MG lower.

The 7.62x39 carrier itself could be switched to an M16 (FA) carrier and it should work then, but the 9mm upper as a whole wouldn't because of how everything goes together in there. You'd need a Colt style or RRA or PSA 9mm upper to work with the lower unfortunately altogether.

Good luck on the lower. While I do own a registered submachinegun, it's not an M16 lower unfortunately. That would be awesome but I won't ever be able to afford that I'm afraid. I'll be content with my M10/9 with 2nd Gen Lage upper. :thumbs up:
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Re: Oly uppers and registered receiver (full auto) lowers??

Postby JCS » Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:51 am

I had an M\11 9mm with the Lage upper and a Lage 22 kit - I had to "mechanic" the 22 kit too much - the regular Lage upper ran like a dream, but I really wanted to shoot it in 22LR - I sold the whole thing a year or two ago.

Just curious how come OA's carriers are made so as not to contact an auto sear? My limited knowledge of ARs thought that the parts were all supposed to be interchangeable - LOL, but I guess not so much, huh?

What I was trying to accomplish is getting into a full auto AR that'd use my exiscont ammo - 7.62x39 and 9mm - the full auto ARs are close in price to the full auto AKs, but I figured that with an AK I'd only be able to use 7.62x39, whereas an AR with different uppers (the two I already have), I'd be good to go.
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Re: Oly uppers and registered receiver (full auto) lowers??

Postby John A. » Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:22 pm

Unless something has changed, Olympic always neutered their bolts to not engage the auto sear.

Without getting into details, it is specifically to be a semi auto carrier and not a full auto carrier.

On the 7.62x39, the upper and bolt will work, but you'd have to exchange the bolt carrier itself to an M16 or FA bolt carrier. The 9mm would be better to just get a Colt style upper altogether like I mentioned above. It's just too different to work.

I had one of Sam's (Practical Solutions) 22 uppers for my M10. It was really good. But my gen 2 Lage upper is on it more than anything these days. It's fantastic.
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Re: Oly uppers and registered receiver (full auto) lowers??

Postby JCS » Sun Sep 25, 2016 5:26 am

LOL, I used to be THAT guy - then my ADHD kicked in and I was on to the next thing - HEY, there goes a squirrel !!

If I could find a FA that ran 100% I'd be happy, but from what I've seen a lot of them seem to need a lot of tinkering - to a degree that's fun, but not all the time. In my limited experience, shooting machine guns these days isn't like the old WW2 movies where they run 100% all the time.

I guess there was a good reason why some of the AR components were "neutered", but it makes the "interchangeable parts" benefit problematical. I guess I'll just keep my two ARs as they are - thanks guys !
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Re: Oly uppers and registered receiver (full auto) lowers??

Postby John A. » Sun Sep 25, 2016 2:05 pm

On the x39, it's just the carrier. A $70 replacement to a FA carrier and you're cooking with Crisco baby.
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Re: Oly uppers and registered receiver (full auto) lowers??

Postby JCS » Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:14 pm

Thanks guys for the, as always, VERY helpful information - but looks like the FA bug has left me again - I'm sure I'll be happy shooting my other semi-auto guns.
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Re: Oly uppers and registered receiver (full auto) lowers??

Postby Rattler » Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:03 am

John A. wrote:Olympics carriers are made so as to not contact an auto sear so neither would work in a registered MG lower.
True.

John A. wrote:The 7.62x39 carrier itself could be switched to an M16 (FA) carrier and it should work then, but the 9mm upper as a whole wouldn't because of how everything goes together in there.
Also true.

John A. wrote:You'd need a Colt style or RRA or PSA 9mm upper to work with the lower unfortunately altogether.
This is inaccurate. Olympic Arms does make a full auto carrier for all it's pistol caliber conversions. You would simply need to swap out the carrier to convert toe upper to be able to function on a standard full-auto lower. Because of Washington State Laws (where Olympic is located), full-auto carriers are not provided unless the purchaser can show that they are going on a legally registered lower, or to a class-III Dealer.
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Re: Oly uppers and registered receiver (full auto) lowers??

Postby Rattler » Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:20 am

JCS wrote:Just curious how come OA's carriers are made so as not to contact an auto sear? My limited knowledge of ARs thought that the parts were all supposed to be interchangeable - LOL, but I guess not so much, huh?
Yes, if that's what you thought then your knowledge is in fact very limited. There is much about the field of AR15 production over the years that is different from some manufacturers. As an example, people think that Colt is the Gold Standard, when in fact, their product over the years has often been the least mil-sec of all brands on the market, and uniquely different so as not to be interchangeable, and this was done on purpose by Colt. Colt- in their ever increases state of arrogance, decided that if they made their parts different that customers would have to but their parts, and so they made their parts different, charged more money for them, and people left Colt in droves for Olympic Arms, Bushmaster and DPMS (which was all their was at the time). Colt changed their mind and went back to mil-spec interchangeability, wavered from it again, and is now back on the mil-spec bandwagon once again.

The general conception among the young and new AR15 aficionados, is that everything just drops together and functions fine, no matter whose parts you buy. Nothing could be further from the truth. Because of allowable parts tolerances on the prints, and tolerance stacking you may have two both, both of which would pass independent quality control inspections and be "in print", that will not fit together. And now, with the internet and YouTube and everyone that can make a video becoming an expert on the AR15, we are at a place in time in the manifestation of AR15's where there is more disinformation and out-right fallacy being passed off and universally understood to be fact - then in the history of the system. The things i see when people send in guns for repair. The things i hear when talking to people on the phone about AR's that don't work properly - would curdle your girdle. It's outright sickening.

JCS wrote:What I was trying to accomplish is getting into a full auto AR that'd use my exiscont ammo - 7.62x39 and 9mm - the full auto ARs are close in price to the full auto AKs, but I figured that with an AK I'd only be able to use 7.62x39, whereas an AR with different uppers (the two I already have), I'd be good to go.
And you will. You are on the right path, and I commend you for seeking the understanding before moving forward.
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Re: Oly uppers and registered receiver (full auto) lowers??

Postby JCS » Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:48 am

Thanks very much for taking the time to explain - LOL, one more justification why I'll never even think about trying to be a gunsmith (except on my own guns, maybe).

SO, if I understood you correctly, if I legally acquired the right kind of a FA AR-15 lower, all I'd need would be the FA carriers (9mm and 7.62) from OA, and I'd be GTG for FA fun with my 7.62 and 9mm uppers? (I was a bit cloudy on your explanation of the 9mm situation.)

What type of FA lower should I look for? Note that I'm just a regular guy - none of the "dealer sample" stuff would work in my situation.
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Re: Oly uppers and registered receiver (full auto) lowers??

Postby John A. » Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:04 am

Thanks for the reply Rattler.

I didn't know that Oly made a 9mm full auto carrier. First that I had heard of one. That's probably why most 9mm submachinegun uppers achieve such with colt style uppers. To be honest, I didn't know that Olympic had a 9mm machinegun variant, even for LEO/MIL.

JCS, not to jump in front of Rattler responding, I believe what he is referring to is the old colt style large hole receivers.

Most current (or at least newer) receievers have a small pin holes for the takedown and pivot pin hole. Whereas early Colts' used a large pin.

Here is a photo of a small hole to large hole adapter to show the difference in diameters.

Colt large pin = .315"

Standard AR/M16 pin = .250"

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Also, brownells has a nice little writeup detailing some of the other differences over the years that folks sometimes come across.
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=1586 ... nformation
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Re: Oly uppers and registered receiver (full auto) lowers??

Postby Rattler » Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:50 am

JCS wrote: SO, if I understood you correctly, if I legally acquired the right kind of a FA AR-15 lower, all I'd need would be the FA carriers (9mm and 7.62) from OA, and I'd be GTG for FA fun with my 7.62 and 9mm uppers? (I was a bit cloudy on your explanation of the 9mm situation.)
The "right" lower is a transferable full-auto which will cost you a small fortune. Once you have that (or any complete registered full-auto which now cost 2 small fortunes), any Oly upper with Full-auto carrier will work on that lower. There are lots of full-auto 9mm units out there that run very successfully, both in civilian distribution, and in the LE/Military community. Oly once sold 250 9mm SBR full-auto units to the Italy for use in their Naval Submarine corp. They have also been sold to the IDF.

JCS wrote:What type of FA lower should I look for? Note that I'm just a regular guy - none of the "dealer sample" stuff would work in my situation.
John A. would be a better source of info on this.
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Re: Oly uppers and registered receiver (full auto) lowers??

Postby JCS » Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:22 am

They are a small fortune - last time I checked an AR-15 \ M-16 registered receiver was just South of $20,000 - but, they've proven to be a relatively good investment. I had an M11 FA that I made some money on, but for me, my experience with that one wasn't all I had hoped it would be - I would hope that the manufacturing tolerances and quality on an M-16 are better than on that M11, so reliability and shooting enjoyment should be a better experience.

Then again, a President that doesn't like guns could render all the FA guns in the ATF registry worthless with the stroke of a pen - a longshot, sure, but it'd be a $20,000 bet with unknown odds.

I'm guessing that my 22LR AR-15 upper (Chiappa) would need some tinkering to run with a FA lower - or maybe be in the "no way" category? Any thoughts?

What do the FA carriers cost (7.62x39 and 9mm) ?? Thanks
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Re: Oly uppers and registered receiver (full auto) lowers??

Postby Shermanator » Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:12 am

Personally I wouldn't use an OA barrel upper for an M16, because from my understanding OA barrels are not chrome lined.

For full auto fire in the M16 you are not going for accuracy, instead you want a longer barrel life. You will get that from a barrel that is made as close to the chrome lining specs of a M249SAW barrel.

however I haven't looked into the many other lining or barrel treatments that may be out there now, which may be better than chrome lining for barrel wear.
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Re: Oly uppers and registered receiver (full auto) lowers??

Postby JCS » Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:32 am

Thanks for the input - from the Oly website, it says "Long-life non-chromed bore" - I'd also tend to go wiht a chrome lined barrel for the reasons you mentioned, but I think Oly makes a quality product and I'd be willing to try one of their uppers in a FA situation, given that I'll be doing only some limited FA shooting - after all, I'm doing some recreational shooting, not going to war. Where I live, there's only one place that's reasonable near me that I can shoot a FA gun.

Besides, I already have the Oly uppers, and I'd rather buy just a RR that I can use with my different Oly uppers, rather than buy an entire gun dedicated to FA with a single caliber.
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Re: Oly uppers and registered receiver (full auto) lowers??

Postby Rattler » Fri Sep 30, 2016 6:02 am

Chrome lining adding barrel life is a total myth. During testing for the M4 SOPMOD upgrades done in the 2000-2002 trials, chrome lined barrels failed as early as 600 rounds of sustained full auto fire. In other words, the chrome lining, being harder than the steel that is under them, begins to crack, chip, and flake very early in the barrel life process. Once this chrome lining begins to fail, it CANNOT be stopped or repaired. In full auto systems it is actually its most detrimental. Flat-out, chrome lining does not produce a longer life barrel.

During the SOPMOD tests, the Crane Naval Surface Warfare Unit abandoned the chrome lined barrels, and preferred stainless steel. Their preferred barrel was in fact a MaxHard® carbon steel barrel from an H11 derivative. Some were copper washed on the exterior and some were not. Since the DoD tried to reverse engineer this process (along with partnering with another brand name manufacturer to attempt to steel Olympic Arms steel and manufacturing methods) rather than just purchase the barrels, Oly abandoned the project and the SOPMOD upgrades only recommended a larger diameter for the M4 barrel.

A non-chromed lined barrel will always be more accurate, and allows for headspace adjustment should a bolt need to be replaced at a time down the life of the barrel (barrels outlive bolts). SS does heat faster than carbon steel.but the benefit is that it dissipates heat almost three times faster as well. In my mind and experience, there is not a single favorable reason to have a chrome lined barrel in anything.
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Re: Oly uppers and registered receiver (full auto) lowers??

Postby JCS » Fri Sep 30, 2016 6:23 am

Thanks for that explanation - I learned a lot.

How much do the full auto carriers cost for 7.62x39 and 9mm ??
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Re: Oly uppers and registered receiver (full auto) lowers??

Postby Rattler » Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:04 am

JCS wrote:Thanks for that explanation - I learned a lot.
You're welcome. There is so much about the AR15 that everyone "knows", that is simply not true or accurate. We (all the OA2 guys) do our level best to make sure that what gets shared here is accurate information, and credit is given where credit is due. Yes, we are all Oly fans, but we ALL own pother brands as well and are a fan of the AR platform above anything else. For a lot of us, our BS meter goes off fairly easily.

JCS wrote:How much do the full auto carriers cost for 7.62x39 and 9mm ??

7.62x39/5.56 FA carriers: $61.10
Pistol Caliber FA Carriers: $70.00
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Re: Oly uppers and registered receiver (full auto) lowers??

Postby JCS » Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:47 am

Thanks - I'll look around for an extra $20K for a FA RR \ lower - then buy those to FA carriers.
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Re: Oly uppers and registered receiver (full auto) lowers??

Postby John A. » Mon Oct 03, 2016 1:23 pm

Rattler wrote:
JCS wrote:What type of FA lower should I look for? Note that I'm just a regular guy - none of the "dealer sample" stuff would work in my situation.
John A. would be a better source of info on this.


Thanks rattler.

Try to find a receiver that is A2 specs would be the most desirable, at least from a shooters standpoint.

I am only going to touch on this briefly and since you have already owned a machinegun is probably not going to tell you much that you already don't know, but for the sake of saying it, this could easily be taken into a more in-depth topic, but here is a brief history lesson and explanation why I personally would be looking for an A2.

When Reagan signed the '86 civilian machinegun ban into law, that essentially cut off civilian ownership beyond that date and thus limited the citizens to whatever specs were in place at that time and to what receivers were in the registry at that time. Since you are purchasing for investment and collection, you'll be limited to transferable only, so as you mentioned already, skip over anything that is dealer sample only sales, even though they are the best prices, they're not meant for mere mortals.

Many registered and transferable M16 receivers are no less, cast receivers. Those are usually the least desirable from a construction viewpoint and if a crack were to form, would be much more difficult (if not impossible) to weld and repair if comparing to a forged 6061 or 7075 aluminum receiver, which can be tig welded and refinished more easily. It would be a moot point if they were still $50 receivers and could be replaced like any other broken part, but since they're nearly 20 grand now and irreplaceable, it IS very important.

A large number of recievers in the registry are of the "older" A1 specs that don't have reinforced area's like the current A2 receivers that we are used to and common of todays standards. And also have large hole receiver pin holes. As I added a link earlier, there are adapters being made where pin hole size isn't too important, it's still something to be mindful of.

In order of what I would look for:

Cast receiver being the least desirable, the A1 would be the most common transferable receiver type, and the A2 receiver would be the most desirable from a structural standpoint.

From an investment and collector standpoint, finding older H&R and Colts receivers, and even a few Armalite recievers would likely demand the most money with biggest potential of return later if/when you sold it. These mentioned by name would also likely be A1 receivers but to collectors, they're paying for the name on the side more than what type of receiver it has and possible historical or emotional value.

Shermanator wrote:Personally I wouldn't use an OA barrel upper for an M16, because from my understanding OA barrels are not chrome lined.

For full auto fire in the M16 you are not going for accuracy, instead you want a longer barrel life. You will get that from a barrel that is made as close to the chrome lining specs of a M249SAW barrel.

however I haven't looked into the many other lining or barrel treatments that may be out there now, which may be better than chrome lining for barrel wear.



Chrome lining has been a cornerstone of "mil spec" since they were fielded in Vietnam and issued with ball powder and without cleaning kits in a terrible environment for metal. It wasn't done for extending barrel life, but for corrosion resistance.

Well, maybe for extended the barrel life on the battlefield because they rusted up so quickly.

From a metallurgical viewpoint, I personally prefer stainless and nitride barrels for the simple fact, neither are a lining, or coating.

When a barrel is made for chrome lining, it has to be bored slightly over to accommodate for the thickness of the lining, otherwise there would be problems with pressure when you're shooting.

As Rattler mentioned, chrome tends to flake and/or crack with use over time. For my best example, I'm sure we're all old enough to remember how the bumpers of 1980 Chevrolet and Ford pickup trucks looked in 1995. The chrome was all flaky and falling off of the rusty steel hiding underneath. And this from nothing more than rain, wind, corrosion, and physical contact from people stepping up and down off of them. And not from the heat and pressure and friction associated with shooting a bullet down one several thousand feet per second.

Just for full disclosure, I made a retro'ish clone a few years ago using a colt receiver and as many milsurp and period correct components as I could find, which obviously includes a chrome lined barrel. So, I'm not against chrome lined barrels, but I also recognize their inherent flaws for what they are.

I added the "ish" in my description because it has the later teardrop forward assist and flat top upper with a detach carryhandle and a 1:7 twist barrel just because I wanted the "feel" of the early model M16's, but wasn't willing to sacrifice more modern features.

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Re: Oly uppers and registered receiver (full auto) lowers??

Postby JCS » Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:03 pm

Great information and background - thanks. If \ when I get more serious about a FA AR lower, I'll reach out to ya - for that much money, there are a lot more questions that I'm gonna have to ask the seller - LOL and at this point, I don't even know all the questions, much less the answers.

One thing that does worry me is the government mandating that the existing registry of MGs can't be sold - essentially letting them all age out till the current owners are all dead and MGs woudl need to be turned in and destroyed - or something like that. Any thoughts??
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Re: Oly uppers and registered receiver (full auto) lowers??

Postby John A. » Mon Oct 03, 2016 8:05 pm

I don't mind to help answer any question that I can.

But I never take bets when it comes to "what if's".

I never liked hypothetical questions, and always preferred to deal with things on a fact-based basis.

A lot of things "could" happen. Including meteors.

The way I see it, I am on this planet for a finite number of days, and I'm trying to make the most out of as many of them as I can.

While I try to think and plan ahead when it comes to some things (I suppose guns, water, and food being among those), it's an exercise in futility trying to guess what the gov't is or isn't going to do. Many are incompetent to begin with and the rest seem they're already bought and paid for and corruption seems to run rampant. My Daddy always used to tell me that if a politician wasn't crooked when they got into politics, they would be when they got out. It seems that things haven't changed much since his days.

With that said, I think the gov't will eventually try to register and or outlaw all or as many weapons as they can get by with just like other countries have. Especially with current leadership and trends. And my thoughts are that it will be within the next generation or two to be more precise about it. There are still too many of us old guys who remember how the United States of America is supposed to be still yet for that to happen without war and bloodshed and politicians don't want that on their record unless they think they can get by with it. But many of the younger ones just know what they see today, which is not the America that I grew up in and love.

I won't recommend what path anyone should take. But I am comfortable with the one that I have accepted in my heart if it holds true in my lifetime.

Sorry about going off on a tangent. I probably caused another little light to go off deep inside the nsa, again.
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Re: Oly uppers and registered receiver (full auto) lowers??

Postby JCS » Mon Oct 03, 2016 10:49 pm

AMEN !
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Re: Oly uppers and registered receiver (full auto) lowers??

Postby Shermanator » Thu Oct 06, 2016 7:28 am

John A. wrote:Many registered and transferable M16 receivers are no less, cast receivers.

Only discussing Transferable M16 lowers.
There are very few cast receivers. EA is well known to be cast and are the least desirable. The majority of M16 receivers are forged.

John has pointed out the most desirable are the A2 style M16. Because of the grey area of legality I would personally stay away from the Colts with the A3 style reinforcements and any OA with A2 reinforcements.

JCS if you do not care about being able to shoot .22LR or having a burst option, you should consider getting a RLL (Registered Lightning Link). If you want to Burst and 22LR consider a RDIAS.
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Re: Oly uppers and registered receiver (full auto) lowers??

Postby Globemaster » Fri Oct 07, 2016 4:28 pm

this is me on a .22LR Full Auto SBR w/ AJ-Ciener Kit :mrgreen:



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