Interesting upper for weet.

Building a rifle based on the AR-15 hardware?

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Interesting upper for weet.

Postby Thom » Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:42 am

Well, it seems that weet is always looking for oddball components and this one certainly fits in that category.

>>Spikes Tactical Slickside M4<<

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Re: Interesting upper for weet.

Postby Globemaster » Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:35 pm

where is Weet?
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Re: Interesting upper for weet.

Postby Thom » Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:08 pm

He's on one of his periodic disappearances. . .

No worries, I am sure he will pop back up sooner or later!
Thom. . .

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Re: Interesting upper for weet.

Postby weet » Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:56 pm

I'm BACKKKK !!
i started this life with nothing'
kept most of it.
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Re: Interesting upper for weet.

Postby weet » Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:01 pm

Thom wrote:Well, it seems that weet is always looking for oddball components and this one certainly fits in that category.

>>Spikes Tactical Slickside M4<<

Image

.....



ohhh phooey !!!
i just LOVE that !
be perfect for my A1/A4 mutt build.
yep .. green mountain 1/12 barrel with flattop and F marked fsp... that upper fits the ideal perfectly :)
thanks !!
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Re: Interesting upper for weet.

Postby weatherman » Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:07 pm

I am very curious as to why various manufacturers of AR-15s do not offer an upper without a BFA. The first M16s ordered by the USAF (Gen Lemay was in charge then, I believe) had no BFA nor any provision for one.


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I firmly believe that the BFA was the wrong answer to a problem that stemmed from fouled bolts/chambers due to lack of proper maintenance (M16A1).

To my mind, if the 5.56 round is damaged, malformed, or otherwise not within spec and fails to chamber (not allowing the bolt lugs to fully engage in battery), forcing such a round further into the chamber with a thumb-operated device without the possibility of complete lug engagement only results in a jammed rifle wherein the jammed round cannot be extracted using the charging handle without using some blunt force pressure upon the charging handle.

I have owned (but no longer) 2 Bushmasters with chrome-lined chambers/barrels. Very tight insofar as go/no-go gauges. Any 5.56/.223 reloaded round that was not full length resized would not fully chamber.

The most expedient remedy for a failure-to-chamber is to eject the bad round and try the next one. If that fails also, you have a dirty gun or bad ammo, but you still have a rifle that is mechanically operational without a live round stuck in the chamber using the BFA.
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Re: Interesting upper for weet.

Postby Globemaster » Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:26 pm

all valid points weatherman ...
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Re: Interesting upper for weet.

Postby Colorado Osprey » Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:27 pm

I like the forward assist.
It has other purposes other than to shove a round in the chamber that wouldn't normally fit.

The main reason I like the forward assist is that because you don't have direct contact with the bolt and if you didn't cleanly let go of the charging handle when loading the rifle (get caught on something) you don't have to cycle it again expelling a good round on the ground.
I agree that charging again is the fastest way to get back into the action.
Secondly, if you hunt with an AR they are noisy to load and can potentially scare off game. By riding the charge handle while loading, then using the forward assist to fully close the bolt you can charge the weapon without hardly making a sound.

That upper does look clean without a BFA though!
Lets just remove all the warning label and let nature take its course.
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Re: Interesting upper for weet.

Postby weet » Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:27 am

ok.. y'all lost me BFA ?
i know what FA is ( forward assist ) ...
but BFA stumps me ....

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Re: Interesting upper for weet.

Postby weatherman » Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:40 pm

Colorado Osprey wrote:I like the forward assist.
It has other purposes other than to shove a round in the chamber that wouldn't normally fit.

The main reason I like the forward assist is that because you don't have direct contact with the bolt and if you didn't cleanly let go of the charging handle when loading the rifle (get caught on something) you don't have to cycle it again expelling a good round on the ground.


While I respect your opinions affirming the positive use of a BFA, I must question why the expelling of one (or two) rounds onto the ground is a big deal: if someone has a chambering problem due to bad ammo or fouled parts (shame on us), losing 1-2 rounds won't break the bank.

I agree that charging again is the fastest way to get back into the action.


Sincerely, thank you, sir.

Secondly, if you hunt with an AR they are noisy to load and can potentially scare off game. By riding the charge handle while loading, then using the forward assist to fully close the bolt you can charge the weapon without hardly making a sound.


I have heard this argument numerous times and I find some faults with it. Correct me if I am off base.

When I used to hunt (too old and eyes too poor these days) I would enter the field/woods with a full mag and the long gun on "Safe" (no matter whether I used a repeating rifle or shotgun). If the situation presented itself, a very quiet "snick" pushing off the safety rarely alerted any animal/bird.

With your scenario I am thinking that you carry the AR-15 with a loaded mag in one of two conditions:

1.) Bolt carrier assembly retracted with an open chamber (even if the dust cover is closed, which would create more noise when the bolt carrier assembly is slowly moved into battery).

2.) Bolt carrier assembly closed on an empty chamber, wherein retracting it would make noise, and the addition of chambering a round from the mag makes even more noise.

If you are on a stationary position, the rifle should ready to fire. If you are moving, any noise you make will be greater than pushing the safety lever to "Fire" position.

If I missed any other scenarios, please let me know. I am always willing to learn.

That upper does look clean without a BFA though!


We agree on that note! It's also about 1.5 oz. lighter, FWIW.
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Re: Interesting upper for weet.

Postby weatherman » Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:45 pm

weet wrote:ok.. y'all lost me BFA ?
i know what FA is ( forward assist ) ...
but BFA stumps me ....

Weet


Sorry. BFA is Bolt Forward Assist. That's what I was trained to call it back in the day. And, the A1 version with the round surface (rather then the A2 elongated version) is much cleaner and does the same function. The A2 version was specified when GI's used the heel of the hand to use it, hence more surface area.
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Re: Interesting upper for weet.

Postby Colorado Osprey » Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:40 pm

Weatherman, 1st off I respect and agree with everything you mentioned and you opinions.

where I mentioned:
Secondly, if you hunt with an AR they are noisy to load and can potentially scare off game. By riding the charge handle while loading, then using the forward assist to fully close the bolt you can charge the weapon without hardly making a sound.


You stated:
I have heard this argument numerous times and I find some faults with it. Correct me if I am off base.

When I used to hunt (too old and eyes too poor these days) I would enter the field/woods with a full mag and the long gun on "Safe" (no matter whether I used a repeating rifle or shotgun). If the situation presented itself, a very quiet "snick" pushing off the safety rarely alerted any animal/bird.

With your scenario I am thinking that you carry the AR-15 with a loaded mag in one of two conditions:

1.) Bolt carrier assembly retracted with an open chamber (even if the dust cover is closed, which would create more noise when the bolt carrier assembly is slowly moved into battery).

2.) Bolt carrier assembly closed on an empty chamber, wherein retracting it would make noise, and the addition of chambering a round from the mag makes even more noise.

If you are on a stationary position, the rifle should ready to fire. If you are moving, any noise you make will be greater than pushing the safety lever to "Fire" position.


I must be the exception. I don't hunt with a loaded firearm. I hunt with a firearm that is unloaded.(at least not chambered) To me safety is 1st and no hunting is worth a potential accident happening from a negligent or accidental discharge. In fact while big game hunting I have been known to dry fire at the animal a time or two to get rid of any "buck fever" before even shooting. Also by doing the dry fire shooting the hunt seems to last longer and is more fulfilling to me.
When hunting with an AR I don't even have a mag in the gun. When hunting coyotes, antelope or deer I slip one round into the chamber with an open bolt, then after slowly lowering the bolt, push the FA and then seat a magazine in case a follow up round is needed. It is very quiet. So quiet that someone standing next to you would have trouble hearing anything.

Here in Colorado most don't hunt stands. It is open ground hunting where spotting and stalking are the norm.

Even hunting with a shotgun (O/U) I hunt with the gun open. Only when I spot game is the barrels closed. I've just seen (personally) too many accidents to change my style of hunting. These are also the methods I suggest to those I teach (kids) as well as adults I have guided professionally. I have got a few looks when I have suggested it to folks too. I always tell them stories about people I have seen or witnessed that have had accidents with graphic details. They seem to accept it and a few have actually changed their hunting to my ways even when not in my presents.

As far as the Safety is concerned. Yes they work, but can fail. I don't rely on just the Safety when hunting.

Now on the other side of the coin, as an X-LEO I did/do carry loaded and chambered firearms. Putting your life or others on the line is something else entirely. I am just referring to hunting in the above references.
Lets just remove all the warning label and let nature take its course.
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Re: Interesting upper for weet.

Postby weatherman » Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:09 pm

I fully appreciate your perspective.

If it works for you, I cannot denounce your methods and perspectives.

I'm done here as different operatives work well in many different locations and mindsets.

Good luck to you, sir, in all of your safe endeavors.
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Re: Interesting upper for weet.

Postby weatherman » Sun Jan 26, 2014 4:08 pm

Sorry to stray from the OP.

The unit looks to be serviceable. If I still had an AR-15, I would definitely entertain the idea of using such a product.

I'm old school and find that all of the aftermarket rails only beg to add much weight to a light rifle.

Back in the day, I even ordered a SARCO surplus M60 bipod (worked well, but HEAVY) and a piece of hardware that allowed 3 loaded mags to be inserted/attached to the rifle. Lots of weight.

OT, but I still think the best accessory for an AR15 is/was the Redi-Mag which allowed for an additional mag to be carried on the port side of the rifle. Fairly light weight and easily operated with the option to use it or not.

http://proshop.tigerswan.com/boonie-pac ... y-mag.aspx

http://www.armslist.com/posts/358121/wa ... --redi-mag
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Re: Interesting upper for weet.

Postby John A. » Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:26 pm

I missed a nice buck 3 years ago when I failed to fully chamber a round.

While I understand that it was not the fault of the gun, or the cartridge, but it learned that I would rather have a forward assist after that.

I was trying to be as quiet as possible chambering a round after getting out of the truck, and all that I got for it was a big CLICK.

Had I used the forward assist, the story would've ended very differently.
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Re: Interesting upper for weet.

Postby Globemaster » Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:47 pm

I usually hunt with my Olympic Arms 25WSSM, so I always use the paddle, and send the bolt carrier home hard; and I do hunt with a round on the chamber … typically :mrgreen:
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